You are still referring to Anna Engel Winegar as “Elizabeth,” thus perpetuating the confusion of Anna Engel Winegar with Elizabeth Coen…both of whom married men named Lasher. So far as I know, there are no records that show Anna Engel being referred to as Elizabeth.

Janeen

Below, I have listed the information I’ve found for Anne Engel’s sister Anna Maria Winegar Diederich:

Henry Z. Jones, Jr. in his book “The Palatine Families of New York, 1710″ states Anna Maria Winegar married Christian Diederich. Presumeably based on the following records:

Christian Haber, baptsed 29 Sep 1726, “at Jakob Schumaker’s at Kamp” Sp. “Christian Dietericks and wife Anna Marie” (NYC Luth. Chrbk.)

Christian Schreiber, baptized 14 Oct 1744, Sp. “Christian Diederich and wife Maria Winnegrin” (Red Hook Luth. Chrbk.)

Christian Moore, baptized 2 Jun 1749, Sp. “Christian Diederich and Maria Diederich” (Red Hook Luth. Chrbk.)

Maria Moore, baptised 19 Dec 1756, “Sp. Christian Diederich and Anna Maria Winegar” (Red Hook Luth. Chrbk.)

Maria Moore, baptized 30 Oct 1757, Sp. “Christian Diederich and wife Mareitgen Winneger” (Germantown Luth. Chrbk.) [This last may also be the Christian Diederich who married Maria Gertrude Hagedorn - as Marietgen is a contracted version of Maria Gertrude and the baptism also being in the Germantown area. JFL]

Wilhelm Barthel on 22 Nov 1721 at Queensbury, Camps w/ William Hagedorn (NYC Lutheran Churchbook) “Sp. Wilhelm Hagedoorn and Engel Winiger”

Engel Clum on 22 May 1725 w/ Christoffel Fritz (Linlithgo Reformed Churchbook) “Sp. Christoffel Fritz and Engel Lisser”

There is also a record of Engel’s mother, Anna Winegar, ats the baptismal sponsor of her son Johannes Lasher here:

Johannes Lasher was baptised at “7 weeks old 11 Aug 1726 at Haneman Saalbach’s home at Kamp. Sp. Jos. Bast. Loscher – his paternal grandfather, and Anna Winniger – his maternal grandmother.” NYC Luth. Chrbk.

I can not verify any further children of Ulrich and Anna Winegar. Every record indicates they only had three. As you know they had a son Garhard, who was my ancestor, Gerhard Lasher’s, maternal uncle, namesake and his baptismal sponsor. His sister Anna Engle Winager had married Conrad Lasher on or before 1724 (marriage record not located). For your convenience I have included the following records:

Conrad and wife Anna Engel Winegar were the baptismal sonsors for the following children:

Anna Engel Minckler on 24 apr 1726 at Camp (NYC Lutheran Churchbook) “Sp. Conrad Loscher and wife Anna Engel”

Engel Lasher on 27 Aug 1741 (Germantown Reformed Churchbook) “Sp. Coonrad Loescher and Engeltje Winneger” [their neice]

Conrad Clapper on 7 Oct 1741 (Germantown Reformed Churchbook) “Sp. Conrad Lessor and wife Engel Winneker”

Conrad Lasher on 19 Feb 1746 (Germantown Lutheran Churchbook) “Sp. Cunrath Loescher and Elizabeth” [their nephew] [?? Elizabeth could be Engel's sister-in-law, Elizabeth Hemmer, wife of Conrad's brother George but as this is the baptizees' mother, its not likely. May be a transcription error. JFL]

Conrad Heyner on 28 Jun 1751 (Loonenburg Lutheran Churchbook) “Conraad Loscher and Engeltje”

Engel Lasher on 28 Nov 1767 (Stone Arabia reformed Churchbook) “Sp. Conrad Losher and Angelica Losher” [their grandaughter]

Conrad Lasher on 11 Apr 1775 (Germantown Reformed Churchbook) “Sp. Conrad Lescher and wife Engel Winniger” [their youngest nephew]

Thanks for your reply. I am in agreement with you conclusions except for Elizabeth’s marrying Niclaus Laux. I don’t find that Niclaus married a Winegar. See my comment from Dec.20,2010 below.

Many records state that Anna Elizabeth, wife of Sabastian Lasher, was a Winegar. This is not correct. The confusion undoubtedly comes from Anna Engel Winninger (the younger daughter of Ulrich and Anna) marrying a man with the surname of Lasher (Johann Christian Lasher). Anna Elizabeth also married a man with the surname of Lasher, but she and Anna Engel are not the same person. The Ancram German Reformed Church records of Livingston Manor in Dutchess County, New York, show several records concerning the Rauh family with Sabastian and Elizabeth Lasher as sponsors — but Elizabeth’s maiden name is clearly given as Coen and not Winegar.

It would appear from the post above that Elizabeth’s second husband was Niclaus Laux.

Thank you for this information. I have only recently taken an interest in the Winegar (and all its various spellings) family as David Winegar / Winigar (sp?) married into my Grim family in Augusta, Virginia ca late 1700s. The son of David Winegar and Catherine (Grim) Winegar spelled his name Winigar (according to his tombstone at Find A Grave) and also had the given name of David.

David Jr. Winigar married his cousin, Rebecca Grim, dau of my direct ancestor, John Grim in the early 1800s in Virginia. It appears that the Winegars were one of the German families who moved from Pennsylvania to Virginia and later to Ohio along with several other German families, including my ancestral group, the Grim family and Kaumann (Cowman) family.

I belong to ancestry.com and have been more than a little confused in looking for records of the David Winegar (note his son spells the name differently) who first married into the Grim family in August, VA. Several trees there list David Sr. Winegar’s father as William Winigar, s/o Nicholas Winigar, s/o Ulrich Winnigar. I found this difficult to believe given the lack of citations, so went in search on the internet and found your blog.

After reading your genealogist’s report and your own research on Ulrich Winegar, I’m convinced I can go no further with David Winegar of Augusta, VA through ancestry.com and the erroneous information posted there on the various Winegar lines.

This is frustrating, as I’m curious about all of these German families who stayed together as a group and moved as a unit across the country upon meeting in Pennsylvania after their emigration in the 1700s. While I don’t believe my David Winegar is related to your Ulrich, if there are any online resources for Winegars in Pennsylvania and Virginia, I’d love to be informed.

Because of the spelling variations, they will be a challenge to track. As it turns out, this entire unit of families has been difficult to track; in researching the Grim and Kaumann families one finds the Winegar family mentioned, esp as they married into the Grim family, but no history of their origin unfortunately. This research on the Grim family was undertaken by a family member who hired at least 5 different genealogists! The Winegar family is mentioned in their findings.

Anyway, I hope it’s okay I posted a story on my ancestry tree noting the errors being perpetuated there by connecting David Winegar to Ulrich back through two generations, all three generations I believe to be in error. I noted the url for your blog, and hopefully other Winegar descendants at ancestry may be inspired to do real research. Unfortunately, prof. genealogists’ prices are out of my range, so I’ll keep searching the internet for informative sites like yours.

I’m also interested in your mention of a Virginia genealogy publication? As my ancestors did settle in the Augusta and Rockbridge region, perhaps I should look into a subscription.

Thanks for all the info!

It is difficult to verify records of birth and marriage information for the Palatines who settled in New York. I am confident that Ulrich Winegar and Anna Arnoldt had two daughters. (Anna)Elizabeth Engle Winegar married Conrad Lasher. Anna Marie married Johan Christian Dietrich. Most Ancestry files show that Niclaus Laux married either Anna Catherine Heber or Anna Elisibetha Hambuch. I don’t believe that he married a Winegar. On my Dec.1 post I included letters from Elizabeth Strauss, a genealogist with the Amenia Historical Society. She may be able to find more information on the Laux family.

Let me know what you find.

Jim

I am trying to put this all in context because Niclaus Laux (or Laucks) was my 5-great grandfather. As you say, he married Anna Elisabeth Wennegar (Winegar) but she must have been a bit older than what you state because she gave birth to two children before Wilhelm (Elisabeth Catharine, b. ca. 1711, who married Johann Peter Althauser; and Abraham, b. ca. 1713, who married Anna Margaretha Reiffenberger).

I am a male-to-male-to-male descendant by their youngest child, Niclaus, b. ca. 1724. My name is Dickinson because my paternal grandfather was adopted.

There was a nice 300th anniversary of the arrival of the Palatines held in Germantown, NY in October 2010. They unveiled a new plaque with the names of the original families and “Winninger” was included.

I would be interested in any information that might document the births of Johann Niclaus Laux (Laucks) and Anna Elisabeth Wennegar (Winegar), their marriage, and their children.